many of these ultras are on the paybooks of the clubs…how in some way is it not about calcio?

just because it didnt take place at the stadium, does not mean that these people are not affiliated with the club or represent the club in some fashion

to change news…rumor on goal.com…Hicks is trying to buy Roma

this was the TG1 news coverage about the events at the Olimpico

the police’s action towards fans is not a one way street…just as the police acted in poor judgement today, fans have historically shown ill judgement as well…i lived in Italy for three years (recently) and the utter disregard for laws/rules can be at times disheartening…i will never forget attending a game at the san siro and while walking up the circle ramp in the stadium, having to avoid two crazy guys driving their vespas up and down amongst the people…who does that? how did they get the motorinos in the stadium? especially after someone had once tossed one off the upper tier? that’s a disregard to rules/order…. ive also been in a bar in milan and seen ultras from milan come out of nowhere and pick a fight with a bunch of friendly Celtic fans

i dont want to point fingers..its impossible…every side in this debate can be at fault in some way…but when a small group of fans continue to act like animals, think they are above the law, and put the rest of the public in danger, then its not surprising that they are treated like animals (i am not speaking about today’s shooting, but rather the police’s attitude at stadiums)

i love italy and wish i could still live there (no more work papers/visa), and i dont want to generalize, BUT from my experience (especially in rome) people point the finger WAY TOO often at the police/government without taking responsibility for their own actions

you’ve outlined the basic conundrum here – things do need to change and change drastically. however, i cant see the ‘english model’ ever being accepted either. i also have to admit that it would be a big let-down to see a more ’sterilized’ serie a. the fan base and tifo are a huge part of the spectacle and game but it seems to be coming with a progressively increasing price to pay.

[court transcript]
contempt
of court

From the transcript of a pretrial hearing that took
place on May 5,in a criminal court in Adelaide,
Australia,before judge Roy Grubb.In the transcript
below,the prisoner is Yusuf Biyikli,a Turkish immi-
grant charged with “assault occasioning actual bodi-
ly harm”;Mr. Smart is the attorney for the crown.

[The charge is read]
PRISONER:Shut up,fucking poofter.You poofter,
thank you.
HIS HONOR:You just keep quiet,we will have
a word with you in a moment.
PRISONER:Fuck to you.All right,you poofter.
All right,I fuck you.That is answer.
HIS HONOR:It is said that you assaulted-
PRISONER:Fuck the English,fuck the colony,
all right.
HIS HONOR:If you don’t shut up-
PRISONER:Fuck the judge too.That is not true.
HIS HONOR:Do we assume this is a plea of not
guilty?
MR.SMART:Yes,I think wa can assume that.
PRISONER:I fuck you,answer you,stuff you,
poofter.Is that enough for you answer?
HIS HONOR:That is no answer,but I take it as
a plea of not guilty.Inview of the out-
rageous outburst from the accused,I assume that
the torrent of language from him is a plea of not
guilty to each count.Remand for trial.Has some-
one been imprudent enough to grant a bail
agreement?
MR. SMART:I hesitate to ask him
PRISONER:Fuck you.
HIS HONOR:Do you wish to ask for bail?
PRISONER:You ask yourself bail,poofter.
Now ask me.
HIS HONOR:I don’t have to ask.
PRISONER:Fuck the bail,fuck Australia.
HIS HONOR:I take it ,then, you don’t wish
to seek bail.
PRISONER:Stuff that.
HIS HONOR:No application for bail,the ac-
cused is remanded for trial in custody.
PRISONER:Fucking bastard,poofter,melon-arse.

from Harper’s Magazine,December 1993.

HAMLET
Ay, marry, is ‘t.
But to my mind, though I am native here
And to the manner born, it is a custom
More honored in the breach than the observance.
This heavy-headed revel east and west
Makes us traduced and taxed of other nations.

They clepe us drunkards and with swinish phrase
Soil our addition. And indeed it takes
From our achievements, though performed at height,
The pith and marrow of our attribute.
So oft it chances in particular men
That for some vicious mole of nature in them—
As in their birth (wherein they are not guilty,
Since nature cannot choose his origin),
By the o’ergrowth of some complexion,
Oft breaking down the pales and forts of reason,
Or by some habit that too much o’erleavens
The form of plausive manners—that these men,
Carrying, I say, the stamp of one defect,
Being nature’s livery or fortune’s star,
Their virtues else (be they as pure as grace,
As infinite as man may undergo)
Shall in the general censure take corruption
From that particular fault. The dram of evil
Doth all the noble substance of a doubt
To his own scandal.