Juventus Taints Calcio With Their Presence Once Again

By: chris | September 24th, 2007

Referee Gives Juventus Another Gift, Skepticism Ensues:

Roma 2 – Juve 2

Well, it’s nice to know that old habits still die hard. In the 87th minute of yesterday’s Roma game, the referee abruptly stopped the game with the ball in play after a legal throw in by Cicinho. Why? For time wasting. Which would be a yellow card offense, had the ball not been thrown in already, which just makes it ridiculous (it took 9 seconds). So, instead of giving Cicinho a yellow and telling him to retake the throw, the rules, he hands the throw in the Juventus about 15 yards from the corner flag. Juventus scores off the throw in and takes two points away from the deserving Roma. What’s more? Giorgio Chiellini’s throw in appears to be illegal. The video isn’t the greatest, but it looks like he clearly takes his foot off the ground on the throw in. Either way, that throw in was never Juve’s.

The sad part? I’ve come to expect this against Juventus. The year in Serie B was a joke of a punishment, most notably when you factor in the effect Luciano Moggi had outside of refereeing decisions. Juventus tainted Serie A with their presence for years and now they’re back at it again. What’s more is how utterly idiotic can a referee be to give a borderline call to Juve, nevermind a blatantly illegal one.

Regardless, Roma lost that game as well. Specifically Simone Perrotta and Mancini, who missed a few sitters which could have put the game in the “veni vidi vici” category. Roma beat Juventus’ asses up and down that pitch all game, and apart from a few lapses, were the dominant team and earned their perch upon the Serie A leaderboard and all the praise which has been heaped on them in past weeks.

Also, Juventus sucks. Well, compared to Juves of old. If they make the CL next season they should get down on their knees and start to thank the football gods. That defense is going to give up goals like nobody’s business, especially now that Andrade is out for the year.

Highlights:

Roma-juve 2-2
Uploaded by Lawir92

Standings:

1. Roma 3-0-1 10pts (+7)
2. Inter 2-0-2 8pts (+4)
3. Fiorentina 2-0-2 8pts (+3)
4. Atalanta 2-0-2 8pts (+3) Enjoy it while it lasts
5. Napoli 2-1-1 7pts (+5)
6. Juventus 2-1-1 7pts (+4)

Fact is, Roma is still top of the table, still looking stronger than anybody in Serie A and still playing some gorgeous football (oh, and that Totti guy is en fuego, always a good sign). It’s not disastrous, but it is when it’s against Juventus. All in all, this from my season preview does alleviate the pain a bit:

Third, that 7 week gauntlet of calcio hell. How well will Roma perform and then rebound? Will it be either focus on Serie A or CL? Will the squad, particularly the defense, be healthy enough by then? My feeling is this: Roma needs to take a minimum of 7 points from the first 3 weeks against Palermo, Siena, and Regina. That allows at worst two wins and a draw, which is more than doable – with 9 points a very real possibility. Then that leaves the 7 weeks of hell. As we all know, one of Roma’s worst problems is dropping points against weaker opposition – then playing their collective arses off against the big boys. With the new depth this shouldn’t be as much of a problem, so it’s fair to say Roma can easily take 6 points off the two “breathers” in the middle, Parma and Napoli. In the remaining 5 games against Fiorentina, Juventus, Inter, Milan and Lazio – I think they can and should take ten points. Beating Juve, Lazyo and Fiorentina while dropping one of Milan and Inter with a draw to the other. That leaves 23 points after 10 games, with a pansy schedule the rest of the way until the winter. Inter isn’t going to have nearly the season they had last year, and it won’t require 113 points to take the league this year. And if the performance in the Super Coppa was foreshadowing in any way, then taking close to maximum points is a very real possibility in these first ten weeks. After that, Roma can work itself towards that 7 week gauntlet in the second half a bit more smoothly.

They got the nine points in the first 3 games, have 10 points total after 4, look very strong and are more than capable of 13 points in the next 6 games. The way Milan and Inter look, should Roma beat them? Absolutely. Will they? Whole different question. But the fact is, after watching them play, I am much more comfortable with the gauntlet of calcio hell than I was to begin the season. Right now I can absolutely see Roma picking up 14-16 points in this little 6 game stretch, especially considering the rest of the big 4 is looking a little squeamish. The forecast is good, but damnit I hate giving points to Juve.

Roma Scores:

On the 6-8 scale, individual performances.

Doni: The first goal was not his fault. He probably should’ve stayed on his line on the second goal, but that looked more like a flick than a header. It was a lucky goal. Other than that he played ok. 6.5

Cicinho: Yes, he conceded the penalty. Yes, he supposedly screwed up that throw in. But he was still good and had a few flashes of the brilliance he is capable of. Didn’t show the sprint speed as much as I thought he would, though. Maybe he is really injured or not up to par. Despite the miscue, a relatively good performance and a few glimpses into the (bright) future. 7

Mexes: Not his best game. Not his best game at all. Largely responsible for at least giving Trezeguet that much space and letting him head that ball back. With how good he is every other game, we can live with it. 6.5

Juan: Nothing special, a few miscues, but nothing major. This was actually the first time the defense looked almost weak, but nothing to scoff about. That Juve front line is decent (minus Del Piero, of course). 7

Tonetto: Vintage Max Tonetto. If you had told me last summer that meant yet another extremely good performance while taking over the left wing, I would never have believed you. 7.5

Aquilani: Played a fantastic game and was especially evident when fulfilling his defensive responsibilities. His partnership with DDR and Francesco’s goals will be the driving force in Roma’s push for the Scudetto. 7.5

De Rossi: Ditto. He has come a long way in taking over some of David Pizarro’s duties from last season, while dropping back a bit more and allowing King Alberto to push up more often. No complaints here. 7.5

Mancini: He just seemed slow. Not uninspired, but lacking like 2-3 steps. The sitter he missed to start off the second half didn’t help things either. I’m not sure if he’s still out of form or that the injury is lingering a little more that he’s letting on. He’ll be fine eventually, but sooner would be better than later. The club can afford to have him at 50% for Catnia. Inter? Not so much. (Well, maybe, they blow right now) 6.5

Perrotta: What can you say? I love Simone, but he cost the team 2 points. He’s a grinder and he provides so many of the small things that go unappreciated, but he could’ve easily had the scoreline 4-1 when the Serie B champs got that early X-Mas gift from the ref. I’m willing to start taking up a collection to get Simone a hypnotist to convince him he has the finishing abilities of ll Capitano. This team would never lose if that was the case. 6 (My prediction of Simone netting 10 goals this year isn’t looking all that great, but hell, he probably could’ve had 7 by now)

* – Simone made goal.com’s honorable mention team for Gio 4. Apparently I watched the wrong game.

Taddei: What the hell was that left-footed shot he took in the second half? I thought he was bound for a stellar goal and it winds up almost a throw in. That’s the on-the-ball version of the finger roll substitution signal, “time to get me off, coach.” Quite obviously running on complete empty by the time the 70th minute rolled around (probably eariler). Methinks he’ll be taking a seat in the stands on Wednesday. 7

Totti: I’m going to steal a quote from Ruud Gullit here: “Totti is Totti.” Yes, yes he is. He’s a goal-scoring machine, creative genius, virtuoso with the ball on his foot and one of the greatest players to ever grace calcio, you dumb fuck. 8

Cassetti: Not enough minutes to really judge, but that was a hell of a run he had when Francesco put him through, only to be saved by Gigi. Still, he has been playing well enough that we hadn’t missed Cicinho. Who saw that coming? I

* – Looks to be out a month, hello Cicinho.

Giuly: After one of those twelve offsides called in succession I said “one of these is going to go through. It’s inevitable.” But alas, wasn’t meant to be. Lulu was still a regular nuisance and a very dynamic addition to the team when he was brought on. 7.5

Brighi: Not enough minutes, but I like what he’s bringing to the table.

Poobah: I knew we were going to see the majority of Roma’s best XI, but I didn’tt realize we would see Roma’s actual best XI…like all of them. I was very surprised when I saw the initial lineup, even though I didn’t have any issues with it. Though I was hoping Lulu would get the tart over Mancini, but he came in a provided his greatest attribute in the second half: an injection of pace for a tired, overmatched defense. A lot of people were complaining about the lack of substitutes, but I think they may have forgotten Cassetti was taken off early and TGIP lost a sub. I’m in the camp of not wanting to use your last sub too early in a close game in the event of injury, so I have no issues with the subs – even though I wanted to see Lulu (or DP with KA pushing up) on for Simone when it was apparent he wasn’t finding the back of the net anytime soon.

While he certainly wasn’t to blame for the finishing, and you can’t fault him for putting out Rom’s best XI – the team was still exhausted and we all knew that was going to happen. I wish we had seen a few different faces. 6.5

Key Matchups

Roma v Fatigue: The team didn’t get gassed until the 80th minute, as far as I could tell, but it only takes a few seconds to have it bite you in the ass. I really think we’re going to see a lot of new faces for the game on Wednesday. Winner: Fatigue

Philou v 1st Degree Murder: Mexes didn’t pick up any cards, but he also didn’t play his finest game. Surprisingly there were no verbal confrontations between Philou and Nedved, and he was relatively tame throughout the game. Winner: Philou (kinda)

Francesco Totti v Gianluigi Buffon: 2 goals. ‘Nuff said. Winner: Francesco.

Mancini, Lulu & Max Tonetto v Juve’s Patchwork Right Side: Roma didn’t start to expose that left/right side until Lulu came on, and I’ll give you one guess as to why. However, it wasn’t as cut-and-dried as previously thought, because Calduio Ranieri threw out a 4-3-3 instead of the expected 4-4-2. Not to mention two of their previously “injured” players finding their way into the starting XI (Grygera, Nocerino). In the end, neither really won, although Lulu was one more pass from beating that offside trap and making Juve pay…or missing the net completely. Push

Roma v Goal Line: Ugh. Winner: Goal Line.

MOTM: Francesco. (Duh)

I’m wholly too depressed to write more about dropping two (what should have been) easy points against the cheaters, so that’s about it. Anyway, there’s a game in about 48 hours and we must let bygones be bygones and focus all of our energy on that game. If Roma plays like that, then the season will be just fine and the Scudetto is firmly within reach. Viola game stuff tomorrow.

But this always makes me feel better.

Some Related Roma Posts:

Category: Francesco Totti, Game Reviews, Team News

« Roma v Serie B Champs: Back To The Grind | Home | Chivu: Roma A “Small Obstacle” To His Love For Inter »

Kamran

Marco, I'm sorry to say that it's not my decision or call to say whether gaining an advantage should matter in offside offense calls or not. It's FIFA's decision, and their rules clearly support what I've said. If you haven't checked the PDF document linked in my first comment, let me restate that they're the Laws of the Game as published by FIFA. Anyone can bitch about loads of things in it, but FIFA makes the rules for Football and they categorically stated in their laws that an offside position should only be penalised for offense if it gives the player an advantage.
Anthony

It is unfortunate that Totti will be out, but it will be a big test for the team. The team must play much better then they did against Juve. I thought De Rossi was in bad from and outright lazy at times. De Rossi tried not to pressure Del Peiro for some damn reason and P made a great pass to Iaquinta and then Trezeguet scores. De Rossi must do better.

Roma players like De Rossi and Taddei must play much better. I completely agree with Lorenzo that Taddei played like shit and gave the ball away like an amatuer.

Fiorentina game is more important than Inter becuase there will be no Il Capitano. If we are to win the scudetto then this game should be a blow-out PERIOD!!! without Totti.
Marco420

coming from you roberto that's a very apreciated comment
Thanx
agiamba

romachris...didnt notice that totti was offside? whose paying off the referees now?
roberto

marco, your the only level-headed one in this looney bin
1897 x sempre

Now, now, children, i think it's time you just let it go. ;) There are tons of videos out there proving you tried to cheat... but somehow only tied. (*boo hoo*)
The_tuna

I'm gonna have to agree with Marco on this one. From the looks of it Totti was offsides. Who gives two shits though, it happened once in a blue moon for Roma against the cheaters. How many times have the cheaters gotten a goal off a bad call against us.
Marco

Karman I'm afraid to say you could not be more wrong. Coming back from an offside position the moment the ball is passed, and backtracking even for 20m into your own half before receiving the ball, will still mean you were offside at the moment of the pass. The argument of the type "but it's not like he was gaining an advantage, he retreated like 5 meters when he received the ball" makes absolutely no sense.

You guys can twist and turn it any way you like ("spirit of the law", "gaining an advantage" etc. etc.) but Totti was inequivocably offside on that play.
The_tuna

Lorenzo I like that cici idea. Taddei needs a rest and this guy needs more minutes. Jam, I don't think I'm being too pessimistic. I rate Fiore very highly this season, and I anticipate them to be top four. I agree though, Pizarro should start this one, and Guily would replace Perrotta. Now the question is, given his great form, would you leave Aquilani on the bench for this one?
Lorenzo

As for my Taddei "trashing," I do realize that he does alot of running and work from that position and I acknowledged it 3 times already. I said I like him and I don't want him out of Roma so please relax. All I said is he has lost the ball more often than he has retained posession of it this year. Watch the games, its true. When he gets the ball, we very seldomly create anything dangerous. I don't think Spalletti likes to replace him because of the defensive work he does in that position. I understand it, but I would personally rather see Guily in that position (or Cici).
Lorenzo

Its good that Totti and Perrotta are out. They have two very big games coming up against Inter and ManYoo and they need a rest. Vuci is very good and we must have faith in him to do the job, otherwise we are not a team if we rely on one man. As for Perrotta being out, it could be eith Guily or Aquilani who replaces him. Either is great. I have a feeling we will see Cici on the right wing with Panucci at RB.
Jamil Batcha

Tuna, I would not be so pessimistic. We've brought in a fair amount of depth in the off season for such occassions, though our attacking play may be a bit more lacking, I think we can steal a goal on the counter and take it 1-0 if the D holds strong.

The question is who to put in Perrotta's place? Giuly? Aquilani? Brighi? Pizarro?

My thinking is that Giuly will get the nod with Vuci up front, though I would not be surprised to Brighi brought in for solidity allowing DDR to move up a little more and Aquilani in Perrotta's position. Or to see Pizarro brought back into the fold to help us really maintain possession of the ball. In other words, I really don't know. Ought to be fun to watch.

We all knew it was going to be a tough start to the season, and here it is.
john

we can do with out perrotta. giuly is an adaquat replacement. y do u say that totti is gonna be out? as long as hes fit i say start him.

as long as fit n not obnoxly tired id alwasys start totti, de rossi, mex, doni, tonnetto, mancini (esp when he gets back to form)
Kamran

adam, it's not my word, it's an excerpt from Laws of the Game as published by an obscure charity-organization some people like to call FIFA.

According to them, if a player doesn't _gain any advantage_ by being an offside position, the referee shouldn't call an offside "offense". Shooting in head? That's the offense, not the "gaining advantage" part.
Traian

Another ranking system...
http://eurosport.yahoo.com/250...
The_tuna

If both Totti and Perrotta are out of this game then I really don't see us winning tomorrow. Fiorentina are going to be harder to beat than the cheaters were. Vuci get his chance to play as a striker tomorrow, and he better show his worth.
The_tuna

It amazes me to see some Juve fans still claim that Juve had done nothing wrong. I mean really what more do you need to see? The fact that they're back in Serie A is a fucking joke.
Romanista SA

Mutu reckons he's better than Totti.

LMAO

He must be high on coke again.
Jamil Batcha

Adam, 1st of all, I have to ask, who paid Moggi and cut his checks? It certainly wasn't Roma or Lega Calcio. 2nd, who benefitted from it all? Third, it wasn't just Moggi, there were two other Juve bigshots who were involved and got the sack. 4th, it's Italy, everyone knew what was going on the whole time.

"It's not Juve's fault Roma are too cheap." Very true. However, eyebrows do get raised when half ownership of Miccoli, a very good player as we've seen, goes to auction and Juve get him for a paltry 1.5 million euros. Even Cesare Bovo didn't go that cheap.

I'll tell you right now, if Prade and co were involved in half the things Moggi and Co. did, everyone would be on Roma's ass, and quite frankly so would I.

Sorry for the rambling, it's Ramadan and I haven't eaten anything all day.
adam

Karman, so ur saying that if a player was offside by 20 meters and he receives a pass and scores, but in the referee's opinion he doesn't interfere with play its not offside. Karman if u shoot someone dead in the head once or ten times in the heart its still the same crime. and if ur offside by an inch or a mile ur still offside.
Kamran

The Laws of the Game clearly state that:

"A player in an offside position is _only_ penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play by:

- Interfering with play or
- Interfering with an opponent or
- _Gaining an advantage_ by being in that position"

http://www.fifa.com/mm/documen...

Thus, anyone saying that Il Capitano should have been penalised _after_ nullifying his offside advantage is wide off the mark.
adam

chris ur aying juve should be out of serie a for three years for messing up the transfer market and the future of serie a?
1. Juve did nothing wrong, it was all moggi he got banned for a couple of years, he was the center of calciopolli not juve, and pretty much all of their transefers they "fixed" went right out the door. last year 7 of juve's biggest "fixed" star signings left and only two italian teams made a move for them inter, and fiorentina for mutu, viera and ibra. its not juve's fault roma are too cheap to invest money in new players or their own (salary cap).
2. Juve ruined the future of serie a? last season juve were in serie b. look at how the season turned out. 22 pts between 1st place inter milan and roma, and 13 pts behind roma is lazio. If anythings a joke it was the 06/07 season. It was clearly a season to forget unless ur inter milan when that season comes once every 17 years. if you took out juventus from serie a for three years chances are they wont be back for atleast 4-6 years.By that time theitalian league will surely be a 3rd raate league. ROMA, JUVE, MILAN, and inter are what makes the italian league so unique but if you take one team out the entire calcio suffers tremedously.
rocco

on the taddei issue; around 5 minutes befor he was subbed and made that terrible shot to the stands i thought he has somekind of brain damage.. and after he also gave away a simple pass, like he was passing the ball intentiously to that jube player. i never saw such errors from taddei, DP maybe, but not from rodrigo! so i figured either he's fatigued to death or is just terribly pissed at something..

anyway, i hope he gets better soon, cause we all need him close to as much we all need totti!
ivan

Taddei-trash all season!?!?!? Hold your horses, Lorenzo!
That is guy that every single game runs for three people, or at least gives Totti the option not to run but to be creative.
I keep calm because TGIP knows more than the plethora of "know-it-all" Roma fans.
Lorenzo

I agree that his contributions are more subtle but I'm telling you he's been the worst player for Roma by far this season when it comes to offensive contribution. Again, I do realize that he does bring more defense to that position than our other options.
jer

well said
chris

'Zo, I disagree Taddei has been trash. Greatly, in fact. Watch this goal...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YmV...

It was Taddei disrupting play, starting up a counter, getting a cheeky ball to Simone who gets it to Totti to be Totti. He hasn't been a world beater, I'll give you that, but you have to look a lot harder sometimes to find his contributions.
Lorenzo

Chris, I'll give you a pass on Taddei's rating. You've earned at least one pass. At the same time, Taddei was aweful the entire match. Actually, he's been pretty bad all season. I've watched every game and every game as soon as he gets the ball, I starting guessing the manner in which he will lose posession, and most of the time, he does. I'm not trying to trash the guy. I actually like his fighting attitude and work rate. I just don't think he's starting material on this improved Roma side. I'm guessing that TGIP is worried that if he playes Mancini and Guily on the wings that the defensive end might suffer. Thats 1/2 the reason I think Perrotta should flank DDR in the midfield and play Aquilani just in front of them (kinda 1/2 way between a 4-3-3 and a 4-2-3-1). Anyway, Taddei has been atrocious all season and we have better options. Even if it means Cicinho in that position when Pannuci or Cassetti are healthy.
chris

1. That's fine, but I wasn't referring to Calciopoli in the game-fixing/refereeing angle. I was referring to the transfer dealings. Juve irrevocably altered the immediate future of Serie A. As far as I know nobody else was guilty of that. I'll never stop bringing that up. Bygones are not bygones here. It's a joke they're in Serie A. From a competition standpoint, I won't complain. I like big games. But that doesn't change the fact that they negatively impacted all of Serie A.

2. The ref didn't have the option. At least according to rules, but we all know those don't count with Juve.

3. I give people breaks when they're obviously gassed. Taddei was. He was tired just running off when he was subbed. I rated him accordingly, he probably deserved less, but like I said, I did the ratings this afternoon. Not fresh.
Marco

Regarding Calciopoli Chris, if you want to be objective you should say that the Calciopoli trial as a WHOLE was a joke, not just Juve's sentence. All the teams that were originally sentenced to Serie B should have been effectively sentenced to Serie B, not given a pass in Serie A and a fine of a few thousand Euros. What I personally find ridiculous (but since I'm a Juve fan, you're going to say that I'm biased,), is the fact that Juventus ended up paying a lot more than the other clubs (e.g. Fiorentina, Lazio etc). And let's not even start on how AC Milan was allowed to remain in the Champions League and actually ended up winning it. In any case, the Calciopoli business has nothing to do with the current Roma-Juve game, so let's drop the subject altogether.

Regarding Totti's offside position, I don't think anyone will claim that it was an easy call to make for the linesman. I'm with you there, the play happened so fast that the linesman probably didn't have time to realize Totti was coming back from offside, and by the time he lifted his head to the offside line, he must have seen Totti behind Criscito and thought he was level. That doesn't change the fact though, that replays showed that Totti WAS effectively offside. The minute 00:54 evidence is irrefutable.

Regarding the throw it's a much thinner line, but like I said, if I were Roma (reffing decisions aside) I'd be angry with Cicinho for even giving the ref the option to give Juve the ball back.

On a sidenote concerning Taddei, I have to agree with Lorenzo. While I was watching the game, I was surprised at the number of times Taddei made blantantly poor passes directly to the Juve players. The only good thing I saw was the 1-2 exchange that sent Cicinho clear on the right wing in the 2nd half (following by the cross and Perrotta's header wide).
chris

Are you David? Seriously. I've never met someone with such a biased love for all things DP. For watching Roma control every single game this season, especially the midfield, you really can't wait to watch one of the best players get off the pitch.
Juan Carlos Sol

So Pizarro is hopefully starting tomorrow, I hope he can retake the handle of the midfield again since his passes make roma a real threat on the counter no matter how much some of you think he slows down play, I think it is time for him and Aquilani to battle for that spot even though it is totably possible to see them both in the field at the same time since the beginning.

I hope Piza can make you change your mind Chris because in my opinion you severly underestimate his worth and his role in the team, I can see that last year he could not make you think he was any good so I hope he has a much better season this year
chris

I knew a couple would be off. I waited at least 24 hours to do the rankings so it wasn't exactly crisp in my mind. I take full responsibility for any ridiculous ratings.
Lorenzo

How can the ref change the rules of the game? It should be a yellow card if anything on Cici's throw in. I don't have a rule book but I'm pretty sure it is not within the rules to change posession on that play. Seriously....why aren't Roma appealing?

Chris, as for Taddei getting a rating of 7, I have to disagree wholeheartedly. Watch the game and count how many times he keeps posession of the ball vs. how many times he loses it. Its incredible.
chris

Marco, I see what you're saying, but that's certainly not irrefutable evidence when you consider the angles and line judge's perspective. Regardless, that was a much more difficult play because he had to come back for the ball and the advantage was certainly with Criscito. If Totti was further back that's a much easier play.

That's a judgement call, the referee's decision was blatant and egregious. Whether or not Cicinho wasted time is irrelevant. That's a yellow, and certainly not after the ball is in the air. The ref fucked it up in Juve's favor. This isn't a new thing. Cicinho isn't at fault here. As many players said, "I've never seen that before."

And if you want to nitpick, the fact that Juventus is in Serie A after hearing some of Moggi's phone calls in regards to the transfer market and apart from refereeing is unfuckingbelievable. The one year of B was a joke and an insult to calcio.

How can we not go after calls which are wrongly given to Juve? The game should have been either 4-2, -2, or 6-2. Roma made it 2-1 by fucking up chances. The ref made it 2-2. After the stain Juventus put on the sport, the fact that we're having this discussion about that fact is absurd.
Marco

1. Chris now you're just being dishonest. :) If you stop the YouTube video I linked at minute 00:54 (by that time Mançini's ball has definitely left his foot), you can clearly see that at least 3/4 of Totti's body are ahead of Criscito. Il Capitano was definitely offside. And pardon me for saying this, but your whole "spirit of the law" argument makes no sense: it is either offside or it isn't. Coming back from an offside position is still offside.

2. I will give you the benefit of the doubt regarding where the ball went out. In my opinion though, if Cicinho was waiting for the ball to be thrown at him at THAT particular point, it's because that's where the ball had gone out. Again, just my opinion.

Overall if I were a Roma fan, instead of being pissed at the referee for turning the throw the other way, I'd be more pissed at Cicinho and how naive he was in allowing the opposition to get the ball back, especially so close to the Roma box. There are ways and ways to waste time in soccer, and what he chose to do wasn't the brightest. Just my 2 cents...
Corey

The call was questionable I agree, then again the penalty was also questionable. I was very disappointed in surrending the two points, I thought Roma deserved it more. My father, who is by no means a football fan, scrutinized the referees decision to award Juve that throw in when I thought nothing of it, but it had a huge impact on the game.

Also, Aquilani has won me over, he was very impressive, much better then Pizarro. Perrotta disappointed me though, he should have been more clinical in finishing and the game would have been dead and burried.
chris

john, At first I immediately thought no on Espo, but now I'm not so sure. TGIP has been reluctant to feature both Espo and Cicinho, two players that spent most of last season fighting off major injuries. Cassetti changes things for Cicinho, but I'm not sure how much faith he has in Espo yet. I'd be surprised to see him start, but not surprised to see him get minutes (20-30 or so).

I think Giuly will start, and most likely for Perrotta, but I'm also wondering if Brighi will get a run out. I could see a lineup like this:

Doni
Cicinho-Mexes-Ferrari-Tonetto
DDR-Pizarro
Mancini-Giuly-Vucigol
Totti.

Cicinho will start and I think Pizarro will too, which is good, I'd much rather have him starting against Fiorentina than Inter and he has to play one of these games. Ferrari is a good possibility as well, because he's been ready and deserves a run out there.
john

thers no families in the stadiums anymore bc italians decided to stop having children.

does anyone know if esposito is solid enough to start agains firo. i want to see vucinic getting on the field. he seems like a real talent and a solid weapon this year. im almost deff spaletti will start giuly in the middle this wed.

forza roma
Muddia Dome

I had the perfect sports day going Sunday. The Pack go to 3-0 as the Old Man gets TD toss 420, the beloved Cub get the magic number down to 4 games.

Then, I settle in to watch Roma-Juve on the DVR. Watch 86 minutes or so of domination (and a little ineptitude in finishing) only to get screwed in the end. That call on the throw-in is at teh very least shady and more likely, flat out bullsh*t. Anywho, on we go. Forza Roma!
Juan Carlos Sol

leys hope we can do better with Fiore

I did not watch the game but it seams we had everything to win it, now I hope we can take advantage of our oportunities in this game
chris

1. No it doesn't. They clearly freeze-frame it when Mancini's foot has yet to strike the ball, not after the ball has left his foot. At that point it's a matter of centimeters. Does it matter anyway? From the spirit of the law, it did not give Roma any advantage. In fact, Totti having to come back further gave them a disadvantage.

2. That didn't show where the ball went, it showed where the ball was thrown to Cicinho. Big difference. And if that is the case, that he took a few steps, then why didn't the ref blow the whistle and tell him to move back while he had already spent a cool 3-4 seconds waiting to throw it in? Instead blowing it after the ball was in the air? Ref blew it.

No matter which way you look at it, the ref was wrong to give the throw in to Juve, the offside non-call followed the letter and spirit of the law. And Juve needs a ref to give them points...again. End of story. :)
Marco

Come on Chris :) I know you hate Juve with all your might, but don't be such a sourpuss...

For those still wondering about Totti being offside, I think THIS video will clear any doubts.

Regarding the Juve throw-in, not only did Cicinho take a good 9 seconds to take it, but he stepped up a good 6 meters from where the ball had gone out of play. When he first picks up the ball he's 1m in ahead of the 6-yard box, when the ball leaves his hands he's 1m ahead of the penalty spot. Do with that what you want...
Ezio

If we are talking about business relationships, let's not forget our friend Voeller at Bayern leverkusen who gave us Juan for a great price, and our friend Zico at Fenerbache who reportedly copied the way Roma beat Inter in the Supercoppa to beat them again in Champions...
Marco420

Inara!
We have a good(business) relationship with Real MAdrid, Barcelona and Bellinzona. That's pretty much it !

as for the Ultras, well their slogan says it all ; c'è Solo ASRoma!

Roma should have won but they didn't, they should of closed the game earlier, bad officiating? Yes, but Roma didn't react well.
that's how Roma will become a real Elite team, by closing the games earlier against big teams and winning by 2-3 goals against the likes of Siena and all.

Like Italia in 2002, they got robbed by the referee but they should of won anyway, if Vieri didn't miss those easy goals...
Ethan

Adam, if you check the Zapruder film frame by frame, you will notice that John Connolly was wearing a Juve tie. That's the real reason Oswald wanted to take him out. Sheeesh.

Chris, 'mentally challenged Swiss' = tautology.
chris

Good argument for an offside call..."from around 50 to 53 seconds and pause it really fast"

I've heard the same about Viola fans.
Daniele

Adam the match is over.
Totti scored, and you got very lucky to come away with a point.
We dominated you for over 86 minutes, and you will be 6th place team in Serie A.

Ciao Juventini.
Daniele

Well there is a site, run by Ultras (asromaultras.com i think) and they tell you story of teams we have been friendly with in the past and present. Check it out.

We are good buddies with Madrid as well.. Or just Bronzetti balls.
adam

chris, ur saying that only totti's hand was offside look at this http://youtube.com/watch?v=7yX... from around 50 to 53 seconds and pause it really fast so you can watch it better. he had more than a hand offside. and that gave roma a big advantage because criscito ran up to get an offide call that he made perfectly. but then had to run back to try and stop IL Capitano. Im pissed that goal was allowed ur pissed that chiellini was awarded the throw in. but whatever happened happened its all in the past lets just hope the turin match will be failry reffered for BOTH sides and well see who the better team is then. roma is clearly better for now. but come feb.17, 2008 its gonna be a hwole nother story.
FORZA JUVE!!!!
Ezio

Chris, totally agreed. It was impossible for the referee to see it, hence it's a non-point.

I don't know about Roma and Fiorentina fans being all that friendly. I know of friends of mine that had to make the train trip from Rome, and the walk between the station and the stadium (not a short walk) under police escort with the rest of the travelling Roma fans, because of threats from Fiore supporters.
Ezio

Besides the fact that those stopped where Lazio fans, it was sickening what they had with them!

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/...

No wonder you can't get families in most stadiums anymore...
chris

In the end, if this needs to be freeze-framed and dissected inch-by-inch the argument has little to no validity. That's my take.

Ethan, I'm on the Bellinzona bandwagon. If Unal pans out, Pit proves somewhat useful and Roma lands Russotto, then I say fuck the rest of Serie A. It's all about being friends with the mentally challenged Swiss.
Ezio

Chris, I saw images from the side, up in the stands, and you can see that some parts of Totti's body (other than his arm) might have been somewhat past Criscito at the moment Mancini passed the ball. He then moved back to receive the ball. That much I'm willing to concede to the allegations about his offside position. I still believe he didn't gain any advantage by being in that position, and that's crucial in determining whether an offside position should be penalized or not.
Ethan

Inara, we are BFF with one Bellizona of Switzerland. So there.
tottigoloffi

We should have finished them off around the 50th minute mark. Perrotta, Tadd and Mancini all guilty of wasted opportunities! Yet again we rely on Tottigol!!!!!!
Also Doni?????????
Sometimes looks like a midfielder who's been asked to play in goal.
Apart from that, lovley counter stuff. Forza Bella Roma!
artan

I just can't believe it what kind of a goals we conceded! in the first lets be honest Mexes fucked it up, and in the second cicnho did the same ! well hope the defence gets in the old shape soon. FORZZA TOTTI*
Daniele

Lets cut Mancini a little slack.

He needs a few more matches to get his bearings completely..

Field him and lulu on the wings and we will be golden.
chris

Bashar, I know that, but I can't give him too much credit on either. The first one was Totti and all Totti and the second was a rebound. He still missed a couple clear chances on goal. Not that's he's supposed t be hitting on all cylinders or anything.
chris

Ezio, are you sure? I watched it again many times and his hand may have been offside, but his legs and body were certainly behind Criscito.

And this should make everyone feel better.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/n...
ivan

As much as I hate all the bad things in the world (Juve), we are to blame that we did not win. Actually should have won by a margin.
The game proved that Juve will be struggling all year long and they have to really fight for 4-6 plave in the standings. And that we have team close to greatness and that will make us proud and happy for a while.
Unfortunately we did not take advantage of their mediocrity. I am not talking abt the missed chances (that can happen to anybody..or at least that's another excuse) but abt walking our jerseys for 20 min in the second half. We should have killed them.
Bashar

I'm gonna put up a fight for Amantino. He created both our goals so no complaints! Giuly and Mancini should start the next game on the wings.
Daniele

We have good relations with Fio I believe...
And Lazio...

NOT!
Ezio

Inara, during the "Ultra wars" years (late 70's to mid/late 80's) it would have been Turin, if nothing else as they were opposed to the common enemy Juventus. Now most of Italy's clubs supporter groups are somewhat politicized, with a prevalence of center-right to far-right attitudes (with the notable exception of Livorno), and so "friends" and "rivals" are more about political ideologies than the actual team they support. That's just my feeling having observed fans in the different stadiums, and the talk on fan pubblications and blogs over the years.
Inara47

Just out of curiosity, is there any team that Roma has a good relationship? Roma hates the Milans, Juventus, Lazio, etc. You know, a team that aren't rivals but a respected opponent whose clubs have a strong, healthy relationship (for lyon that's lille).
Ezio

Gabriel, Totti was in fact barely offside at the moment Mancini sent the pass, and then went back behind Criscito to receive the ball and totally school him. But it was very hard to see at normal speed, was only able to detect it at slo-mo replay with the right camera angle. That said, I don't think Totti gained any advantage by being (barely!) offside, since he came back and then pulled that sick move with the ball to jump Criscito.
Daniele

i meant to say tie..
not win..

we are supreme among europe..
and juve are cheating whining cheats who deserved serie C8...
Daniele

Nice post Adam.
Whens your 7th birthday party?? Ill make sure I send my little cousin!!

Juve did not deserve to win this match.

I dunno if it was the refs or whatever it was, but Mexes, Doni, and Simo lost it for us.

Next Fio will feel our anger in losing points..
Giallorosseattle

Oh, and Roma are the most beautiful football team on the earth. I have to rewind, but there was a two-man give-and-go combination that almost went the length of the field before the half. Gotta go back and see who that was. If my head was spinning, imagine poor littel Criscito.
Giallorosseattle

So after all the punishments, we have Milan and Juve staving off defeats on consecutive weekends with last-minute mystery goals. Is this the cynical formula that Calcio is going to shove down our throats for all time? I am really, really, really pissed about this game. Fortunately no amount of officiating can save this utterly mediocre Juve team from itself, they can't sustain this nonsense all year. And if this angers Roma enough to make the next few opponents pay, and to make them tear up the Torino stadium next year in revenge, then fine by me. But Inter aren't going to keep laying down, and it'd be nice to have the cushion we deserve when they come roaring back.

I was a little irritated by Doni's position on the first goal: unless there was a runner behind him, Trezeguet could only go near post for a shot. This is the worst, most unfair kind of hindsight and Doni is generally awesome. Shoulda woulda coulda... I should be griping about Perrotta instead.
billi

Ohhh great post!!!
Awful Juve!!!
I really was furious after that throw in(((
adam

being a juve fan ill admit that roma played better for an entire 87 min. but i getting to understand that u think juve bought the ref. well if thats the case then look at totti's incredible first goal closely. its not so incredible after you realize that it was clearly offside. And another thing look back at how roma started off last year, they were doing pretty damn good but after a while they just lose control. if roma continue to play soccer at thins pace then hell yea they deserve all 3 cups. but looking at the past roma isnt a very consistent team. just dont keep ur hopes up roma fans.
FORZA JUVE!!!
john

i just wanna see a win against fiorintina. important game can be a major pace setter. how is roma gonna respond to injustice. i say by kickin some ass.
line up against fior
totti
mancini(debatable)giuly esposito
de rossi pizzaro
tonnetto juan mexas cici
doni

taddei needs a break for sure. vucinic on for mancini at the 60 mark or even starting over him. guily replace perrotta, he needs a break n i have confidence in giuly. i didnt want to take aqualani out but why else did we pay 12m for pizzaro if were never gonnaa use him. any comments?
Daniele

Onto the next.

Vaffanculo Juve Merda Sempre. And that is all.

We will take Fio and then the return of Mr. Glass.

One doubts he will even show up to lo stadio (he is injured)

Id like to say one last thing. I have still not gotten a shout out! Kidding Chris, kudos on another great post.

Ill defend Mancini and Simo now, you should of scored boys, but save the goals for Inter, Cl, and the end of the season and ill be ok with it.

But damn..

Spal needs to sit them in front of the goal and place little balls on their foot and tell doni to sit down indian style and have them shoot..

Fuck Juve, did i say that yet? If not fuck them.
chris

I've read so many different things I don't know what to believe anymore. Either way....
Traian

Chris:
Very nice post again. Where have you been all these years?!?!? :)
However, I thought retaking the throw was due to the fact that Cici took it about 10 yards from the place where the football actually went out.
Totti's first goal could be easily entitled CALCIO 101 for Criscito.