Chivu Sold: @#$%in’ Finally
By: chris | July 25th, 2007
Chivugate Ovah:
It’s not official yet, but it’s done, and I would assume Inter’s website will announce it shortly. As we all know, Roma takes care of official announcements whenever they damn well feel like it.
After two hours of negotiations today, Rosella and Moratti finally came to an agreement over the transfer of Chivu to the lesser side of Milan. The deal is €14.5m and half ownership of one Marco Andreolli. The co-ownership is tricky. It seems that his total value is €7m, which makes half €3.5m (trust me here), with Roma only having to pay €1.5m. So basically Inter gave Roma €2m towards Andreolli’s co-ownership. It’s confusing, but Roma wouldn’t be involved if it didn’t leave you scratching your head. Also included may be a friendly, and the profits will benefit Roma. I don’t think we’re too far from the day when Roma starts camp in mid-June and just plays 28 friendlies in order to finance the mercato. I wouldn’t put it past Rosella. Anyway, this isn’t all that far off of the €18m deal they agreed to with Real Madrid. (And this is all subject to change. If it isn’t true, I could care less. I’m sick of this Chivu crap.)
This is a great deal from Roma’s standpoint (considering the options). They got rid of a player who didn’t want to be here, got close to his relative market value with one year remaining on his contract and only one suitor to speak of, and filled a need with a massively talented and promising youngster. One who could even approach or surpass Chivu’s status in the future. While this may have been handled more smoothly in hindsight, Rosella and Prade did a fantastic job with this transaction. They weren’t pushed around, didn’t panic and got a very good return. Standing ovation from me. Hell, standing ovation for the entire mercato from me, especially on their funds (excluding that whole being bent over for Pizarro thing). And they’re not even done yet. Bravo.
What It Means:
Francesco Modesto will be announced very shortly. One might assume during the festivities tomorrow night, but it should be within the next 24 hours or so.
Now, Modesto is only going to take out a small chuck of the Chivu bank – we can say it might bring the budget down to €12m remaining from the sale of CC. In fact, he may not even take out any if they had a few million lying around after the original allotment to begin the mercato. Or even itself out with some future sales. Point is, the Modesto money is largely a non-factor.
So where does the rest of that money go? Cicinho is one option, and there is a lot of speculation floating around regarding him right now. People have been floating around the name Jeremy Mathieu, and he is certainly possible, but I’m pretty sure he is more suited to the LB position than the RB position, even though he can play there in emergency. Both would probably command the same pricetag, and I’m sure nearly everyone would prefer Cicinho at his price. I’ve even seen Cristian Zaccardo’s name mentioned, but he’s been begging for a move all sumer and Maurizio Zamparini has been flat ignoring him. I can imagine he might be pretty pricey by Rosella’s standards also. Obviously the position on the pitch most in need of reinforcement right now is RB, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that’s where they will be focusing the money.
The 4th CB spot is all set now. It will also be interesting to see how Andreolli’s co-ownership works out next summer. If they do in fact lose him back to Inter, Roma could conceivably profit immensely from his sale, depending on the value he acquires throughout the upcoming season. Considering he is dubbed another Alessandro Nesta, this could prove to be a win-win situation. Either keep a potentially great player or sell him off for pretty much free money. And it looks like there might be a fight over the #77 unless Marco Cassetti is moved. Which is looking very possible.
Oh, and good riddance Chivu. I never liked you that much anyway.
More to follow when the details are released….
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Comments
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exactly spqr. what is the sense in bringing in a guy like spaletti, who has been amazing given the cast, player turmoil, transfer bans, etc he has to deal with, when at the same time your squad gets depleted of talent, depth? spaletti himself has said the club needs to improve on both these fronts (i think the depth is fianlly getting better – although the quality of the depth may still be in question) and i really think there will be a time in the near future when he will get fed up with the management’s unwillingness to legitimately stengthen the squad and take us to a loftier level that we all are hoping for.
Posted from
Canada
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SPQR, I don’t think Roma is drifting far behind Milan. I mean, how old are they collectively? How many transactions have they made this summer? None? Obviously their talent level eclipses Roma’s, but to say Roma is falling behind Milan might be a little exaggerated.
As for last season, obviously a lot of the credit goes to Inter, they did have a helluva season. Would I like more individual talent? Yes. Do I know what goes on behind the scenes or how much money has allotted for the mercato? No. Spalletti has maintained all along the main focus of this summer is depth, they got that. And the summer isn’t over. So who knows.
And as for everyone who criticizes the management, would I have run this totally differently the last few years? Hells yes. I won’t say they didn’t blow a lot of the calls over the last few years. Never have. I don’t know where that thought came from.
Go all the way back and I have maintained I feel like Roma is currently treading water until there is a new ownership brought in. I’ve said that from the get-go on this blog. But we have to live with what they have. I just look at things from a relative perspective.
Posted from
United States -
chris, i somewhat agree with you on it being a ‘good move’ if you edit out all that led up to all the points you list from ‘a’ to ‘f’. however, when you broaden the lense a bit and look at what prefaced the last couple of months, dont you think roma was the one who actually undermined their own leverage?
Posted from
Canada -
i just went back and read a couple of earlier posts and noticed that maro made a similar point, only more eloquent and elaborate, regarding the point of what led up to roma’s lack of leverage or, as maro put it, digging ourselves in the ‘whole’.
Posted from
Canada -
Holy christ marco, that’s been my point since comment #1. Now we’re hitting 90.
But like I said, I don’t think “they just fucked up by not extending Chivu” is as clear cut as everybody thinks. There is a lot more to it than that. And I don’t think Rosella locked hersself in a room and refused to listen to anybody else’s opinion, if you get my drift. I do wonder how Juan played into all of this.
I’ve been looking at this from the moment Chivu turned down the extension “offer” on. Not last spring or winter, and not last summer.
What good is it going to do us? None. We’re here, that’s hindsight, moving on.
Posted from
United States -
chris – sorry, i guess i missed your point and came into the conversation midstream.
Posted from
Canada -
It’s not just you marco, I think a lot of people missed that.
Posted from
United States -
Chris, I see where you are coming from. I’m just less inclined to let management’s past transgressions slide, I guess. Roma has reached an adequate conclusion to this Chivu saga. I’m unhappy that the situation broke down as much as it did. At any rate, there is now depth in this squad. I’m looking forward to seeing what the boys can do. Serie A will not be a breaze this year.
Posted from
United States -
Or a breeze for that matter.
Posted from
United States -
Steve, I get everybody’s viewpoint here as well. My perspective is I’ve been looking the last few years as Rosella didn’t want this job in the first place and Prade isn’t exactly brilliant either. Therefore this Roma needs a learning curve and thus this current Roma management is more of a journey than a destination. If you get my drift.
Posted from
United States -
I do. Unfortunately, while this club is Rosella’s birthright Prade is a dunce. If Rosella had been able to keep it together with Baldini I don’t think this Chivu situation would have ever snowballed to this point.
Posted from
United States -
Steve,
bear in mind when you write this that I used to contemplate starting a religion based on Franco Baldini. I seriously adore the man.
But didn’t the same thing happen with Emerson under his watch?
I really don’t know what Prade has done to recieve this stick he’s getting, can anyone point to something he’s fucked up, Chivu excluded?Posted from
Sweden -
“BARE in mind when you READ this”
Sorry ’bout that.
Posted from
Sweden -
Wasn’t the Mensa tandem of Prade/Sensi in charge during ‘Mexesgate’ and the subsequent embargo?
Posted from
Canada -
No, Baldini.
Posted from
Sweden -
Somebody just sent emailed me a link to a Roma forum where they’re discussing this debate. So, for the record….
I’m not taking it as an attack, just frustrated because this debate comes up often, and people don’t seem to get that I concur with them, but still see some things from a different angle/perspective (I’m sure people can understand my frustration with that). Maybe it’s my fault for not laying out my argument properly. And one person is fine, two is alright, but when I have up to 5 people attacking my comments, I feel the need to defend my statements – and may take it somewhat personally. Esp when it’s 1 or 2 v 5+. I am human after all. I think.
I love debates, just not the same one over and over and over. I’m sure people can understand that. The management bashing has just become beating a dead horse to me. They’re not great, it’s not changing right now – move on. And for christs sake, again, I agree with nearly everything everybody said. Just look at things differently.
Also for the record, I think somebody mentioned awhile back on another forum I needed a tutorial in watching Roma play. Think that was a tad naive. I analyze athletic nuances every day for my livelihood, and if I didn’t do it really well, I’d be stuffed in an office somewhere. I just look for different things than the average fan, and I was taught by someone who could be considered one of the greats. So I’m more than comfortable with my assessments. I’d take up that challenge any day. Pass on the beer though.
Posted from
United States -
Chris, I think we all got of on the wrong foot slightly. Lets look at it this way, we just lost a world-class centre-haldf today and so naturally some are going to be pissed about it – I know I am (as you may have been able to tell earlier) – and some are just relieved its finally over, whatever way you look at it the whole saga has been a disaster (even though its not official yet – am I still hoping he’ll be wearing giallorossi this season? Eh maybe not).
This is your blog, your entitled to your views and they are very insightful and well liked by us all here, otherwise I guess we wouldn’t be here at all. Its only natural that not all points will be agreed upon – we are, after all, passionate Romanisti. Cetainly I can understand you may have felt a bit under pressure with the sudden influx of all of us who know each other and post on that forum, as were discussing your views over there as well. As I said there, a blog is slightly different layout from a forum, in that a forum is for all discussion and debate, where this blog is yours and yours alone, with the additional comments that come with it, and so naturally you defend what you say. With that in mind, I hope to see you registering over on seriea.forumcircle.com, and other regular contributors here as well, and joining in on our discussions of everything la magica. We’re not a bad bunch, and despite our general disliking of Rosella (except for that Marco Aurelio fella, he fancies the ass of her, the sicko), I think you will find the conversation and insight into Roma very worthwhile, with some very knowledgable and passionate Roma members.
Hope to talk to you there. Forza Roma.
Posted from
Ireland -
Guys, I can’t look back beyond the 25 most recent posts so if there’s anything from Oscar or Chris to which it seems I’m ignoring, my apologies, but I haven’t been able to read those replies.
Chris, the only reason some of us are discussing these exchanges over on the other forum is that we’re interested in what you have had and do have to say. It’s probably also true that sustained discussions like this one are better suited to a forum – we come here to read what you have to say, after all, rather than really to have our say.
I do think you slightly run the risk of simplifying ‘our’ position. Criticism of the management, even fierce criticism, is able to be nuanced and reflective and balanced, too. The “dead horse” of “management bashing” is an exaggerating and distorting cliche; it is as subtle an account of ‘our’ position as suggesting that you were proposing a Rosella-led congratulatory group hug with a little felatio for Prade’ thrown in is a distortion of your position. (I trust so, at least). I think you were too generous; you think I could be a little more generous. Fine, but you’ll find that none of us being critical of the management here are doing so in a cliched, spoilt-brat, pre-pubescent kind of way.
As for the someone who “mentioned a while back that [you] needed a tutorial in watching Roma play,” I think said someone is me and you will have noted, no doubt, that the criticism was not quite as brusque as that and came as the second half of a sentence which began by enthusiastically praising the quality of your blog. Now I can’t claim any of the distinctions you can – I’m neither a professional analyst of athletic nuances nor have I been purposefully taught by anyone, let alone one of the greats. I certainly, though, love my sport and follow the giallorossi especially closely. That comment, then, was in particular response to two pieces from almost consecutive pieces on your blog.
The first was your admission that you’d been taken by surprise by Spags’s comment, in an interview, that his tactical set up was based not only or not even so much around fitting Totti in as a playmaking prima punta as around making the most of Perrotta’s qualities as a trequartista. This surprised me since it’s seemed to me pretty clear for a while that Perrotta’s contribution to the equilibrium of the team, getting beyond Totti with his movement going forward and getting back to fill space in the midfield, was absolutely central to Spags’s tactics. Perrotta’s mobility, his work-rate, and the incisiveness of his runs beyond Totti are critical to the entire shape of the team.
The second point (though perhaps this actually came earlier), was your assessment of Pizarro’s contributions as a playmaker on the basis of the number of assists he contributed over the season. Now lord knows there are reasons to criticise Pizarro, though as some of the others know, I’ve long been a champion of him and, specifically, of what he can offer as a true regista to the shape of our side. To judge his playmaking abilities on his number of assists, though, and then to compare this to the playmaking qualities of Totti seemed to me, though, a fundamental misunderstanding of his role. His playmaking is quite different from Totti’s and even from Pirlo’s, with whom he’s too often uncritically compared. Pizarro’s role isn’t to furnish a string of incisive passes; it’s to be the oil which keeps the team ticking, to get on the ball and keep it moving, always making himself available to link up play, controlling the tempo of our play. Pirlo has strikers who play off the shoulders of the back four and whom he looks, at times, to put away with a single pass. Pizza plays with a striker who almost always likes to come to meet the ball and the incisive passes will come from Totti, at the right moment, much more frequently than from Pizarro. If you want to assess Pizarro’s quality as a regista, then, you need to look at the number of passes he has each game, at the number of times he gets on the ball, and at how he makes use of the ball by moving the play around the pitch and enabling us to retain possession. If you can find a clip of Mancini’s goal against Lyon which starts from the beginning of that move, as it were, rather than from Taddei’s inadvertent pass to Totti, you will see how important and creative Pizarro’s composure is. Totti will get the assist even there, but only because Pizza had the composure to hang onto the ball under no little pressure right up against our goal-line.
From someone trained in the analysis of athletic nuance, then, your comments seemed to me surprising and a little bit naive. Not, of course, that we’re not all susceptible to our own blindspots and naieveties, but that, at least, was the basis of that comment.
Posted from
United States -
naiveties. One day I’ll get it right. “Naieveties” sounds like an ingenuous version of one of Rome’s earliest epic poets.
Posted from
United States -
Maro, I wasn’t trying to simplify your general position. Nor was I trying to imply your position against the management is “cliched, spoilt-brat, pre-pubescent.” Surely you can understand it’s just the overall volume of the same argument coming from various posters that has become beating a dead horse to me. I’m not sure how long you’ve been here, but you aren’t the first person to bring up similar points (polite way of saying the exact same points) in regard to the management’s Homer Simpsonesque ways. Or second. Or third. Or fourth. Get my drift? You know, it’s not you – it’s me.
As far as Perrotta, I think you misinterpreted what I said from that day. Obviously I’m a fan of Simone, he is one of the most under appreciated and valued members of the team. I fully understand what his dynamic pinballing box-to-box, amongst other things, brings to the squad. I was just surprised that Spalletti considers him the main reason he will not deviate from the 4-2-3-1, after certain comments he’s had in the recent past labeled Totti as that reason. Nor would he bring in high-priced forwards because of Totti’s presence – at least until after Suazo decided to dance with the devil for a paycheck. It was just that he contradicted himself somewhat.
“Perrotta’s mobility, his work-rate, and the incisiveness of his runs beyond Totti are critical to the entire shape of the team.”
Couldn’t one make the argument that Totti’s abilities to drop back and assume some of the playmaking duties is a critical part of this equation as well? I think it’s safe to say there aren’t too many strikers lying around Serie A or Europe with his abilities as a midfielder. If they didn’t have such a striker, that Perrotta’s abilities would be largely misused in the system? Perrotta’s runs past Totti become largely negligible if the striker cannot keep or control possession. It’s a silly argument anyway. Both are vital cogs in the machine.
As for Pizarro, that’s a can of worms I’m not ready to get into yet. It seems as though the great majority of the fanbase, from what I see, is split on Pizarro 50/50. I’ve never discounted his playmaking abilities, it’s everything else he provides – or lack thereof. His lack of hustle getting back on defense has always rubbed me very wrong, along with many others. Especially considering he is sometimes the only midfielder back far enough to provide cover on the counter. Which is frightening. The fact that De Rossi pushes so far up as supposedly his DM partner really exposes DP and the team at times. But I don’t want to get too far into Pizarro right now. I’ll revisit some video and come back with something one of these days.
I’ll email the powers that be regarding the comment section, to try and fix that problem in the future so that we can get back more than the recent 25.
Posted from
United States -
Nice post, Chris. I thought I should at least explain my comment lest you thought it was just a gratuitous swipe. Of course Totti and Perrotta are both crucial and irreplaceable; in a sense, though, it’s Totti’s execution of his role which is so outstanding whereas it’s Perrotta’s particular interpretation of that role which is so distinctive. Anyway, I wasn’t proposing literal-mindedly to debate who is more important, but simply to emphasise that the system is in considerable part also designed to get the best out of Perrotta too.
If you could find and upload that clip of the second Lyon goal I’d be very interested in nabbing it for my files. Personally, I think Pizarro is a very fine player indeed, but no-one, one imagines, is going to deny that he’s not quite an all-round, complete midfielder. Still, my sense is that most of the 50% who are against Pizza are so because they don’t actually understand his role and what he contributes. Ask SPqR what he thinks of Pizza’s dive in the first leg against Lyon.
Posted from
United States -
Actually maro, you might be surprised with the demographic of the fanbase who is calling for the removal of Pizarro. The majority of comments I saw back when the management was still discussing his status with Inter which detailed Aquilani’s assets were very eloquent, detailed and seemingly knowledgeable. Others were more a regurgitation of his passing and vision. I remember one coming from someone who obviously spent a great deal playing the game making a very valid case against Pizarro.
But of course that doesn’t mean much. And I didn’t mean it as a backhanded swipe at you, obviously.
I’ve actually tried looking for longer videos during that Lyon game, but the Mancini videos basically start and end at the stepovers. You might be better off looking for a file with the whole game on it.
Scratch that, I can’t anymore. Ill email.
And for the comments, I’ll still email the head honcho but I’ve been able to get back with Mac Safari, but not Firefox – so maybe it has to do with the browser. Not sure, I’m computer illiterate.
Posted from
United States -
Btw maro, I do have one great problem with something you had to say:
“we come here to read what you have to say, after all, rather than really to have our say.”
That’s not true in any way shape or form, I invite dissenting opinions here. I don’t purport to be the almighty Roma knowledge demi-god, that’s not the case at all. One of the things I do enjoy about this blog is the fact that the comment thread is that it turns into a forum somewhat, with various angles of thought voiced.
Unfortunately it typically is more focused on things like analyzing the sexiness of Spanish footballers’ testicles or ‘How French is too French?’ than actual intellectual footballing discussion. Needless to say, I’m up for either, but a mixed bag is preferred.
Posted from
United States -
ill bring back the chivu’s deal and the failed talks for extension. i just saw a tv show with victor becali and he stated 1 more time (ill try to translate) “we had an verbal agreement with Mr. President (thats Moratti) since july 2006. He offered us a lot of guaranties since day 1. Roma is a “small” club, they dont pay much in wages. We wanted a top salary and a CL team” – end quote
So, my guess is that failed renewal contract talks was not Roma’s management.
Posted from
United States -
なんとしてでも、地球を死の惑星にはしたくない。未来に向かって、
地球上のすべての生物との共存をめざし、むしろこれからが、
人類のほんとうの“あけぼの”なのかもしれないとも思うのです。Posted from
Australia
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