

Assessing the Carnage
By: chris | September 16th, 2008
The Grand Imperial Poobah
We’ll start off with Spalletti’s post game words, which seem to be pretty on the nose in this situation. Thieved shamelessly from C4:
“We did some things well and others badly, just as we did in Palermo, and lost the game. In the second half we were disorganised and Cluj were lucky on that second goal,” he said after the 2-1 home defeat.
“The team got tense and it was difficult to express our quality at that stage. The problem is both physical and psychological. When the results don’t come, you lose that relaxed approach and can’t make the most of chances.”
Romanian side Cluj made their all-time Champions League debut and earned a shock victory at the Olimpico despite Christian Panucci giving Roma the lead.
“I tried to re-organise the team and make them pacier with the players I picked and, aside from about five minutes where we struggled and conceded the equaliser, I think we did well in the first half.
“The problem was that we got caught up in the desire to turn it around and lost our sharpness. I admit I expected better from the second half, as we have the players with the quality and character to give more.”
The Giallorossi were without Philippe Mexes, Juan and David Pizarro, losing Panucci after the break for an entirely makeshift central defence.
There were many errors at the back, but the side was also disappointing in attack and has now picked up one point from two Serie A games and this 2-1 European loss.
“I was pleased to see that the players were distraught at what they had done at the final whistle,” said Spalletti.
“They realise they have to completely change their approach and performances, as it is at this stage they can begin to turn things around.
“In the past, despite losing occasionally, the team always created chances and pushed forward. Recently that hasn’t been happening as much.”
His final substitution was Vincenzo Montella despite Jeremy Menez warming up for much of the second half.
“Cluj were pinned back into their own half and so it was pointless trying to run down the flanks and take advantage of space, as there wasn’t any.
“It was better to get someone in there who could put it in the net and go through the middle.”
Chelsea’s 4-0 triumph over Bordeaux leaves Roma struggling badly in Group A.
“We knew Chelsea were the strongest side in our group. It’s not as if we were hoping they’d trip up! The fact remains we need to do better and work hard, making sacrifices to fight our way back into the group.”
I think it’s fair to say a lot of factors were going against Roma heading into this game and forcing his hand with injuries always made this a less than pleasant task. That said, it’s Cluj – they should’ve romped their way to the after party – and the psychological aspect is something we’ve seen before. Actually, it’s something we’ve seen in the first three games of this season alone; Roma gets the lead and all of a sudden start moping around like the community bong made a cameo. For me, that has always been Roma’s, and consequently Spalletti’s, great Achilles heel. They’ve lost before they lose, and his in-game motivational management is severely lacking, if not completely non-existent.
There will be a lot more later, but one last thing I said immediately after the game had ended:
[3:39:23 PM] Calling it right now: Ancelotti and Spalletti will swap jobs by November.
Not saying I’ll necessarily advocate or hope for it, but you can be damn sure Adriano Galliani will have Rosella on the phone within the next few days – and I don’t think she’ll hang up.
Scores
Roma (4-2-3-1): Doni ; Cicinho, Cassetti, Panucci (2′ st Loria), Riise (7′ st Totti); De Rossi, Aquilani; Taddei(32′ st Montella), Baptista, Tonetto; Vucinic. A disp. Artur, Brighi, Menez, Okaka. All. Spalletti
Cluj (4-2-3-1): Stancioiu; Tony, Cadù, De Sousa, Pereira; Dani, Muresan; Dubarbier (43′ st Panin), Trica (22′ st Peralta), Culio; Konè. A disp. Nuno Claro, Alcantara, Deac, Didi, Diego Ruiz. All. Trombetta
Arbitro: Baskakov (Rus) 6
Marcatori: 17′ pt Panucci (R), 27′ pt e 4′ st Culio (C)
Note: ammoniti Pereira, Cicinho, Peralta.
Recupero 0′ pt, 4′ st.
Spettatori 25 mila circa
Ratings
As always, I can’t pay detailed attention during liveblogs, so take these with a half of a half of grain of salt.
Doni: If not for Doni in the first half, this game could’ve been much worse. I haven’t rewatched the goals and don’t plan to, so he gets a pass. 7
Cicinho: I like what he does going forward. A blind cripple could defend better than he is right now. And what’s his percentage on crosses actually doing something mildly productive? 1.7%? 4.3
Cassetti: Marco is not a central defender. He never was a central defender. He will never be a central defender. I don’t know why he’s asked to play central defender. N/A
GOMR: The only piece of stability in the back and provided his trademark near post header on the goal. And then he wound up injured. Just like CBs 1&2. Is it too late to talk Aldair out of retirement?* 7
* – If it’s serious, they may have to consider looking at free agent possibilities. Cassetti as your 1st CB isn’t going to cut it. Wonder what Sammy K is doing these days.
John Arne Riise: What fucking position does he think he plays? Left wing? Left mid? Stadium steward? This ain’t the Prem, tactical positioning counts. 2.7
DDR & KA: I don’t even know. I missed them more than anyone. 6.5 – You can discuss whether that’s each or combined.
Taddei: Can they quickly assemble a friendly for Thursday so he gets some semblance of match form by the time Reggina rolls around?* Given the fact that before Palermo he hadn’t played a competitive game since roughly last winter, I find it hard to blame him. N/A
* – That’s nice Roma was handed a gimme this weekend. Except I can smell a second half Franco Brienza brace to steal a 2-1 victory. Maybe Catanzaro’s youth team could be given a Serie A cameo for the weekend?
Tonetto: From the preview.:
Riise on the wing or in defense, pushing Max up? Seems like a wing partnership of an out of form Taddei and Max/Riise would have us yearning for a Pit-Virga partnership once they start going forward.
What a fuckin’ dream a Pit-Virga wing partnership would’ve been today.
I don’t blame Max so much – though at some point he and Cicinho need to realize crosses don’t work that well for this squad – as I do Spalletti’s opening lineup. Maybe Menez is hurt, but I’d much rather have seen Brighi next to DDR, Aquilani at treq, Mirko out left (where he was lethal once Totti came on) and Beast up top than Tonetto – Guy who’s been in Rome for 3 weeks – Yesterday across the front line. 5.8
Beast: Still waiting for him to show up. 3.1
Vucinic: For being questionable, he was deadly, especially in the second. One of the very few bright spots. 7
Totti: Looked exactly like what he was: coming off an injury and lacking game fitness. N/A
Loria: At least it wasn’t Palermo. 4.2
Montella: There was one play where Totti & Montellea flashed their chemistry, knowing exactly what the other was going to do and where they’d be. Unfortunately both are devoid of match fitness and Monty’s getting up there in age, but it speaks a bit to how much this team could use continuity. And not “we bought him in June” continuity. I’m talking a lineup in front of the defense featuring De Rossi, Vucinic, Perrotta, Taddei and Totti continuity. The type of thing you can only form over years, not months – which is why I think this “they waited too long in the mercato” business is garbage.
That said, Monty gets N/A as well. There was no one available on the bench today who was going to make the difference they needed.
Spal: I have no gripe with the subs, but I never would’ve given two seconds thought to that starting lineup. And that’s before we discuss this team’s mental makeup…. 1.9
MOTM: Lionel Messi.
Oh, I’m sorry, I thought that Argie running wild all over Rome today was Messi. Emmanuel Juan Culio, then. (Seriously – January move?)
And with that: it’s wake up time.
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Comments
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Probably not Fester. We can ask Chris, but he’s a professional and upright man! On the other hand, me and you can formulate some stuff for us and the other Romanistas through other mediums, perhaps……
Posted from
United States

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As for I-Tunes, if my poor mind is working properly, he’s just loaned to Lecce for the season 2008-2009.
As for barbiturates, I’m afraid they’ll be dangerous when mixed with alcohol and I remind you that’s a support group, not a suicide pact group.
Posted from
Poland

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“De Rossi is close, but he’s not one who instills fear in whoever he’s marking/covering.”
Neither does Poulsen.
Other players may not fear DDR but that doesn’t matter. He’ll own them anyway.
Posted from
Denmark

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I think Kaka’ and Totti would beg to differ. Getting in someone’s head is a key part of defending. Not nice, but it’s part of the game.
Posted from
United States

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I should change my name to: “Come to next section!!!”
Posted from
Poland

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alessio – according to wiki, poulsen was bought for 10mil euro and amauri for 15.5mil euro (and include another 4mil euro for nocerino and about 2mil euro for 1/2 of lanzafame). that amounts to about 31-32 mil euro. deduct blasi’s sale of 2.5 mil euro and my calculation amounts to 29 mil euro net for juve’s mercato expenditures.
roma spent 9 mil euro for baptista, 10.5 mil euro for menez, 6 mil euro for riise and 1 mil euro for loria. that amounts to 26.5mil euro. deduct the sale of mancini for 13 mil euro and my calculation amounts to 13.5 mil euro net for roma’s mercato expenditures.
i just wanted to point out that juve may have gotten more “bang” (after two games) because they spent more bucks….not quite “more bang for your buck” as you suggest. i’m not sure you can compare the two teams’ mercato considering juve spent double what roma did.
Posted from
Canada

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Siena just lost 2-0 to Empoli in the Coppa. Not sure if Curci was playing but if he was he held Empoli out until a Siena player got sent off. Then Empoli scored immediately with a penalty and in the 90th.
Posted from
United States

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Nocerino and half of Lanzafame went to Palermo as part of the Amauri deal no? So thats money IN for Juve. They spent 25.5 minus any money in. Still more than us (net)
Posted from
United States

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Goooooal Fiorentina!
Posted from
United States

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Your figures are off, Lamagica. Here’s the important figures. (Anything over 500,000 euros) 17.5 million euros total expenditure for Juve. Probably closer to 15 when you consider Blasi and the 1-2million euros we earned off of selling all these youth players off.
===INCOMING PLAYERS/EXPENDITURES===
Olof Mellberg (DF, Aston Villa) Free transfer
Sebasian Giovinco (MF/FW, Empoli) Return from loan
Claudio Marchisio (MF, Empoli) Return from loan
Albin Ekdal (FW/MF, IF Brommapojkarna) 1 million Euros
Dario Knezevic (CB, Livorno) Loan with an option to purchase
Amauri (FW, Palermo) 23 million Euros
Christian Poulsen (MF, Sevilla) 9.75million Euros
Paolo De Ceglie (DF/MF, Siena co-owned) 3.5 million Euros for full ownership
Alex Manninger (GK, Siena) 1 million Euros
Antonio Chimenti (GK, Udinese) Loan===OUTGOING/SALES===
Domenico Criscito (DF, Genoa) Continued loan for 1 million Euros
Raffaele Palladino (FW, Genoa) Sold on co-ownership, 5million Euros
Matteo Paro (MF, Genoa) Co-ownership resolved for Genoa, 2 million Euros
Manuele Blasi (MF, Napoli) Co-ownership resolved for Napoli, undisclosed amount (at least 2.5million euros, I’d assume. I’d rate him at 8-9 total so a bit higher, but let’s be conservative)
David Lanzafame (FW, Palermo) Sold on co-ownership, 2.5 million Euros
Antonio Nocerino (MF, Palermo) 8 million EurosPosted from
United States

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other way around. the players were included to offset amauri’s cost. they are ‘assets’ that have a monetary value in the deal and used to fund the deal. basically had no players been involved, amauri would have cost 22 mil euro.
Posted from
Canada

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Not true. Technically the deals were all separate with Palermo. Amauri’s price tag was 23million euros by himself. Nocerino+Lanzafame were conducted separately, bringing it to about 13-14 net between us and Palermo.
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United States

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i’m going by a third party report (wiki) that claim the fugures to be different and that players were part of the transaction. there is no indication of nocerino being valuated at 8 mil euro. regardless, the numbers can be adjusted by parties the way they’d like but the bottom line is what counts and wiki states it as 15.5 mil in addition to nocerino and 1/2 of lanzafame.
no matter which way you want to slice it, juve spend significantly more than roma, not less like you originally stated.
Posted from
Canada

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Nominally, if so. All those figures are from the FIGC’s official statements (co-ownerships mainly) and Juventus.com, they are accurate.
So yes, this mercato, we spent roughly the same as Roma. Obviously we spend more in salaries. (usually) I think Roma got screwed on the Baptista and Mancini deal.
Posted from
United States

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alessio, EVEN if we want to go with the figures you put forward, juve spent 35% more than roma. again, significantly more than roma, not less as you originally stated.
i’m not sure what you mean by getting “screwed”. how can roma get “screwed” if a 28-year old winger (not young for that position) who played like shit for an entire season and going into his last year of a contract yields 13mil (15 mil with potential bonuses)? and what about baptista? i would rather take baptista 8 days of the week for the smae price paid for poulsen. and no, it has nothing to do with totti.
Posted from
Canada

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lamagica.. Did you include Vucinic’s 50% stake. That’s 12 mn plus 9 for Baptista, 5 for Riise and 14 for Menez. Minus 13 for Mancini it leaves us spending 28 mn
Posted from
United States

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3-4million euros isn’t significant, lamagica. Besides, as Bashar said, I think you may have spent more than us.
Posted from
United States

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4.5 mil is 35% more, assuming we use your numbers.
i believe we were discussing incoming players so i’m not sure you can really count vucinic’s situation since he was part of the squad already and it was a defered payment. we’d have to rope in all co-ownerships / loan deals that would be settled in the near future and it hardly seems directly relevant to the discussion of this past mercato.
Posted from
Canada

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I watched the game here, in Cluj, and I can tell you CFR went there just to make sure they don’t get embarassed. Everybody here thought they were gonna get smashed. But they found a Roma team that probably hit the bottom last night. We need a hero and that’s gotta be Menez.
I am a huuuuuuge Aquilani fan, but last night he missed a loooooot of passes in the middle.
Anyway, still have a chance to comeback in two weeks at Bordeaux. You will see the real CFR Cluj when they play Chelsea in 2 weeks….It’s only then when we can asses this shameful loss.
Peace out to everybody!Posted from
United States

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Roma did not win, and that ist ok.
They were disorganized, had no controll and there was no space in my opinion. Sorry.
Ma c’é bellisima a curva sud !Posted from
Italy

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the most embarrassing thing: we lost by 2 goals scored by a guy named fucking COOLIO!
it is even worse when you spell the guy’s name properly.
i do not think it is possible to determine whether Juve or Roma got more bang for the buck. when Menez and Baptista are in form you can make that judgment; right now you are seeing Baptista with not enough time to have found his place and playing in a line-up which is so distorted because of injury that Spal doesn’t know exactly where to play him. as far as Menez, i do not think anyone has seen the tip of the iceberg as far as his future contribution to the team. in the end i honestly think you will see we made out much better than you imagine. i would rather have Menez and Baptista than Amauri and Poulsen any day. even Riise will be useful in the future, from the bench.
once this team has it’s starting XI back, i think we will be phenomenal and definitely better than last year – at least as far as potential.
Posted from
United States

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don’t forget Vucinic – he may not have succeeded against Cluj, but he made some of the most impressive runs i have seen from him since the middle of last year. he really stepped up.
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United States

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yeah vucinic was our silver lining in that game… everytime roma got the ball i just wish they pass it to vuci, at least somthing might happen…..
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Malaysia

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Alessio … I understand the less preseason games for less injury scenario, but look how many injuries we have with hardly any preseason games! Should we just not play any at all?
I still believe that more preseason games that we play, would have us in better shape. And I’m not talking about shitty teams like cluj…oh wait a minute, we lost to them too.
…we need more preseason games to be ready on day one. And we need to play in tourneys like the tim / birra moretti cup.
Tutto qua.
Posted from
United States

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